The Thiel CS3.7 part 2: Listening Impressions

The Thiel CS3.7's Driver ... pay no attention to the
green turntable light that couldn't help but photobomb ...

We were looking forward to the demo all week.  We showed up at around noon on Columbus Day - which allowed the salesman, Bob Cesarini, to spend about a week breaking in the speakers.  Given our experience with Thiel, and the fact that they take a long time to break in, this was a good thing. The speakers had about 75 hours or so, so while not fully run in, they would be much better than a "right out of the box" sound. Most of the ugly portion of the break in would be behind it. Bob told us that the factory claims 300+ hours are needed for them to reach their full potential, but at the point of the demo, we should be able to hear what earned them their reputation.  We'll see ...

After Bob gave us the basic introduction to the speaker and his optimistic thoughts on the new owners and the direction of Thiel, he left us to our own devices. (Stereophile's announcement here.  And some more stories here, here and a really good business article here. ) [Ed note from Oct. 2014, 1 year later:  Looks like the owners at Thiel are abandoning the legacy technology of Thiel and making more conventional speakers, and focussing on the "luxury good market" more widely than high end audio.  We wish them the bast of luck but find it a little sad, too.  FOr those wanting a coherent source speaker, time is of the essence if you wan tht emagic of Thiel - once the warehouses are empty, it's likely they won't start making any more.]

The stack that was driving the speakers was a Parasound Halo JC2 preamp driving an A21 amplifier.  The source was a Marantz SA-11s2.  Interconnects were all XLO, and a power conditioner from Shunyata.  While the Parasound Halo has a slightly differnt presentation than the Ayre gear we have, they are in the same general class, which is good.

The Setup

We had our usual set of tunes with us, and got down to listening.

Ella and Louis [SACD]

The Thiels did very well with this - in fact, they were better than any other dynamic speaker we had auditioned, and nipped at the heels of electrostatics in delicacy and detail.

We heard a small amount of tape hiss, which was something we hadn't heard before, and we did hear all the small incidental noises made by Louis Armstrong during the song "Isn't it a Lovely Day" - the speakers had a resolving power the approached that of the Quads we had auditioned earlier, but with a better sense of solidity.  Honestly this was one of the best presentations of this song we'd heard. That is an understatement in my book. When we listened to the Quads, I admired the immediacy of the performance, but there was some small something missing that I couldn't quite identify. With the Thiels, I realized that I was missing a fully integrated, full range of bass. This was present in a lesser way with the Martin Logans, but with the Thiels, I got the whole shaboozie.

Eric Clapton Unplugged [CD]

We were surprised at the clarity and detail from this performance - the triangle we always listen for was as well defined as we've ever heard it, but with a good sense of decay and overtones.  What was surprising is it wasn't over-emphasized.  One thing about these speakers is that they have a clarity that we mistook for brightness, but even at this stage of the breaking-in, the speakers were clear but neither bright, nor rolled off.  But we needed to be sure about this, so we pulled out a remaster of a 10cc album and put it in the queue.

In addition, the emotion of "Tears from Heaven" and "Lonesome Stranger" came through better than we had heard on the Martin Logan and the Quads - we didn't write down any impressions because the music was so good, we honestly forgot.

Genesis, Selling England by the Pound "I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe)" [SACD]

We clearly heard the harmonies between Phil Collins and Peter Gabriel as separate voices, and heard the various effects clearly.  At this point we realized that the propulsive bass was conveyed better than we had ever heard on this song, with the bass neither being thin nor overblown and boomy.  And unlike a lot of speakers you really didn't notice "the bass" but you heard the whole instruments in a realistic sort of way. My name is Kathy, and I am a bass fiend. There, I said it. I don't need to feel the thump in my bones, but I do notice when the bass is thin or missing. The thing that impressed me with the Thiels is that I never got that feeling of "here is the detail, and there is the bass" like I did with the Quads or Martin Logans. The integration of the detail and the foundation of the bass was so seamless to my ear that the music just sounded full and "right."

10cc, Deceptive Bends "Good Morning Judge" [CD Remaster]

This remaster is a little on the bright side (given it is from Japan, this isn't surprising as when they err, it is to pump the treble up slightly).  We used this to settle the debate about the speakers' treble:  are they simply clear or are they a bit bright. 

What we didn't expect was that the explosive beginning nearly threw Mrs. Mancave out of her seat.  I hate to admit it, but even though I knew the song began with a slam, I really did jump. The transient response of the speakers was simply amazing and it never lost its composure. The brightness of the song seemed if anything a little tamer through these speakers than through our reference.  So .. jury was in ... they are electrostatic-like clear, not bright, but with a propulsiveness and transient rightness we've rarely heard, and even then only by significantly more expensive speakers (at the NY show).  And while out CS2.4's are good about these qualities, the CS3.7 were clearly a much better speaker.

Stevie Wonder, Talking Book "Superstition" [SHM-SACD]

We brought this album along as a palate cleanser, given the simple instrumentation and warm smooth sound, it was a perfect way to end the listening session.  We feel everyone with some reference music should throw something like this in the mix, to simply enjoy and stop analyzing.

What surprised us was the actual complexity of the song - we heard things we never heard before - there is a chorus that backs up Stevie in parts of the song that sits so far back you normally wouldn't hear it.  The instrumentation had several other pieces playing, layered in with such subtlety that unless you have a highly resolving system (or perhaps headphones) you wouldn't hear it.  The song was VERY enjoyable, and getting what amounts to more music and more performance had us impressed. We realized we were listening to something pretty special.


What we really liked about them ...

Jim Thiel (RIP) and the CS3.7

What also came through by this point is the way typical speakers color the sound of some instruments.  If you hear a trumpet then think "wow, this is a realistic sounding trumpet." When the piece adds a drum, you subconsciously prepare yourself for a colored drum ... but it just sounds like a drum with the rich timbre they can have.  You don't realize you are doing this "preparation" until you don't have to.  You find yourself with a lot of small pleasant surprises.  And overall, you find your listening sessions stretch for longer and longer, with little of the feeling that you have had your fill.  We suspect once you get used to a speaker this colorless, going to another speaker, other than, perhaps, an electrostatic, may sound terribly colored and unrealistic.  I suspect this is what people say is "speaker boxiness" and perhaps it is.  The Thiel doesn't have whatever it is, or has it to such a low level that it was completely unnoticeable by us.

We also couldn't discern a tonality to the speaker at all.  It seems dead neutral - leaving the owner to flavor the music, if he or she chooses to,  with sources and amplification.  This is a good thing.

Who wouldn't like these speakers ... ?

As you can tell, we liked this speaker, and for those that prize clarity and accuracy as we do, this is a definite "must listen,"  but we realize that not everyone is looking for what we like in a speaker (The "I like vanilla, you like chocolate" effect).  If you like your speakers to be warm and romantic or cool and clinical, you may prefer other speakers to these.  If you have a very small room (say, smaller than 12' x 12' or so - YMMV), you may want to consider the CS2.7 or CS1.7 instead of this one.  If you don't want to bring a lot of high current watts to the party you may struggle to get everything out of the speakers as they can give (100-150W/channel minimum with power doubling from 8 ohms to 4 ohms, or with a monster current reserve seems to be the consensus).

Conclusions

We have to admit that this speaker, in some ways the Legacy of Jim Thiel, is a phenomenal speaker in absolute terms.  It plays far, far above the price Thiel charges (which is still expensive).   You can get close to them with electrostatics,  but you lose some of the bass propulsion. You can get close with some dynamic speakers, but you lose some the transparency, clarity and usually neutrality.  We found that the Thiel had something approaching the clarity of an electrostatic speaker, imaging of a monitor, and the propulsion and dynamics of a large speaker all at the same time, more than anything anywhere near its price. In order to equal or do better, we'd suspect you would have to push things to more than double the price, perhaps more. We heard speakers in the NY Audio show (April 2013) that would have been candidates for a "better than Thiel" experience, but nothing less than twice the price.

As the new corporate owners of Thiel are rumored to be hot to develop a replacement for the CS3.7 but with a much higher price tag, we'd say run, don't walk, to your nearest dealer if you are shopping for a speaker in this price range.  It really is that good.  Highly Recommended.

[Disclaimer:  We have no relationship with The Stereo Shop or Thiel Audio other than as customers]